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RE: serial numbers on ballots



We will just be using BOD to supplement the ballots that they have already ordered from the printer.  They want to use BOD primarily for small elections and to duplicate un-readable ballots by OS units.  BOD will not have stubs.  The serial number are not used to track an individual voter, it simply an internal track to where they send bunches of ballots. We are doing BOD just fine in El Paso, and have been for the past two years (we use two languages there).  Being able to print the serial number on the ballot is an added feature.  Our competitors can already do this. 
 
When we talk about a ballot that did not print correctly, we should be able have a check box to reprint that ballot. Meaning that the "serial number feature" should be manual. Turn it on and off.  We would have to have that type of feature, because, we have to print X number of test ballots to get the OFFSETS right.
 
We do not need an audit trail from GEMS for the number of ballots printed.  The fact that serial numbers are printed on the ballots are enough. WE do not need GEMS to keep track of Ballots printed. That type of audit will be done by the Election Dept.
 
WE ARE NOT TRYING TO EVENT THE WHEEL HERE. WE ARE SIMPLY ADDING A FEATURE TO AN ALREADY GREAT FEATURE.
NOTHING MORE.
 
Rodney
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rcr@dieboldes.com [mailto:owner-rcr@dieboldes.com]On Behalf Of Frank Kaplan
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:01 PM
To: rcr@dieboldes.com
Subject: RE: serial numbers on ballots

I've had some experience with BOD.  Comments below.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rcr@dieboldes.com [mailto:owner-rcr@dieboldes.com]On Behalf Of Rodney Turner
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 3:17 PM
To: rcr@dieboldes.com
Subject: RE: serial numbers on ballots

Tab, I hope these answers help you.  If not, please give me a call.
 
  1. Does this not violate voter secrecy? Some states have legislation that prohibits any identifying mark on the ballot that would allow someone to identify the voter who cast the ballot. 
No, in Texas they track their ballots by putting serial numbers on them (Texas Election Code 52.062).  They have something that is called a ballot-register that they must keep, so they know where their ballots went and how many. 
 
Are you talking serial number on the ballot, or on a stub?  If on the ballot, please check with SOS.  I've never heard of a voted ballot being allowed to be traced back to an individual voter.  If you're talking stub, how will you print an 18" ballot (remember at least 2 languages) plus a 1" or so stub?   

    2.    If we were to implement the 'automatic' incrementing of serial numbers, how about ballots that do not print correctly? Can we just ignore this problem and have 'missing' serial numbers.
 
NO.. we would have to have a way to reprint the ballot with the correct serial number.   Lots of luck.  Another issue to consider:  serial numbers at various sites and then spoiled or missing numbers at each site.  This is a nightmare to administer. 
 
    3.    What kind of audit logging to they want, if any?
 
No audit log needed....    I would think you have to audit.  What do you tell the newspapers when they realize we can print extra ballots on demand and have no audit of the reconciliation numbers? 
 
    4.    Is printing the serial number next to the ballot/precinct label at the bottom of the ballot acceptable, or are they going to want to place the serial number somewhere in the header of the ballot? Implementing this would be a lot of work.
 

I understand.  The counties would accept whereever we decide to place the serial number. Printing the serial number next to the ballot/precinct label would be acceptable.   See comment above. 

According to Ian, the font size would have to be the same.  So long as it is visible, I think where it would be the easiest to implement would be acceptable.

.
    5.    When does this have to be implemented by?
 
The sooner the better.  I know this will take some time. I just need to let the customer (Bexar County and Travis County) know we can do it, and will be able to deliverif they choose us as a vendor.  I can tell El Paso county that we are working on it.
 
Thanks.
 
Rodney
 
 Ballot on Demand is an extremely troublesome product. 
We have never been able to make this work successfully.  There are equipment issues (remember when HP said they would build one for us and then stopped supporting the printer?), personnel issues, software issues, AND we don't make enough money on this to sneeze at.
 
Juan, Rodney-  I've had this same issue with accounts before, most recently in Johnson County, KS.  They had printed 60,000+ BOD ballots from their CMIS system and insisted we had to have BOD.  We explained that the TS, coupled with VC Programmer, would solve their walk-in issues.  Then we delivered some of our Spectrum produced ballots.  They loved the value added features of multiple colors, customization in headers, pre-printed test decks, precinct ids, etc at no additional cost.  Moreover, we can deliver their postal ballots folded and already sorted in boxes by precinct and/or ballot style.  The County argument is that they will run out of ballots.  Our response is to point out that they will have all the value added features and a true inventory of their ballots.  Additionally, we should point out that we can assist them with some inventory practices, and, because we print digitally, no plates and no minimum order, we can turn around their possible re-orders in record time.  For example, if they take inventory by say 2:00pm central time, we can have our west coast facilities possibly print that afternoon.   Although we can't always promise delivery the next am, we can certainly promise a 36 hour turn around.
If we are so far along in the cycle that it is impossible to sell this solution right now, my suggestion is to talk through the BOD and whet their appetite for this digital solution.  Bexar is visiting Johnson County with Barry on Thursday.  I think Barry can prime Connie Schmidt to help with this solution.
 
Let's please think this through before we throw resources at a BOD solution. 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rcr@dieboldes.com [mailto:owner-rcr@dieboldes.com]On Behalf Of Talbot Iredale
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 5:35 PM
To: rcr@dieboldes.com
Subject: Re: serial numbers on ballots

Rodney,
 
    I have a few question regarding this RCR:
 
  1. Does this not violate voter secrecy? Some states have legislation that prohibits any identifying mark on the ballot that would allow someone to identify the voter who cast the ballot.
  2. If we were to implement the 'automatic' incrementing of serial numbers, how about ballots that do not print correctly? Can we just ignore this problem and have 'missing' serial numbers.
  3. What kind of audit logging to they want, if any?
  4. Is printing the serial number next to the ballot/precinct label at the bottom of the ballot acceptable, or are they going to want to place the serial number somewhere in the header of the ballot? Implementing this would be a lot of work.
  5. When does this have to be implemented by?
Tab
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:49 AM
Subject: serial numbers on ballots

We are in the process of Best and Final Offer with two counties, Bexar County and Travis County.
We are going county wide with AccuVote-TS in El Paso county. 
These counties will all have BOD printers.  They are requesting that their BOD printer be able to print
serial numbers on their ballots.  They want to be able to manually set the first number, then have it
increment sequence ally from there.  This could seal the deal for at least one county, Bexar.  We would
win big points with El Paso and Travis.  We need to have an answer for them fairly quickly.  They will be making their
decision around the 29th of this month.  Thanks.